| Author | Message | ||
     Ricardo Chávez |
Hi, In Capers Jones book "Applied Software Measurement", Edition 3, McGraw-Hill, 2008, page 155, it says "Some of the AGILE LITERATURE suggest that a story is typically decomposed into about three story points". Does anyone know which are those Agile literure sources? Or can you please provide some references (articles, books, etc) which deals with the question how many Story Points equals 1 FP? Thanks Ricardo Ch. | ||
| Luigi Buglione |
Hola Ricardo, it's not possible to compare SP and FP, simply because SP is a local, effort-based expression shared within a team, while FP is a metric derived from FUR. Investigating more on XP and Story Points, you'll find that each project team defines a SP as 1 m/d or 1 man/week, there is no standard. And again, if we translate directly the 'inner size' of the things to do into an effort, we've yet introduced a backward analysis by our own typical productivity levels. Do you agree? In this 2007 paper you can find a review about all the typical ways applied to 'size' and estimate in most known agile methods: http://www.dpo.it/smef2007/papers/day2/212.pdf Hope it could be of some help! Best regards, Luigi ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: www.geocities.com/lbu_measure/ MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: http://www.geocities.com/lbu_measure MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 | ||
| Pranay Srivastava |
Hi Ricardo, I have not come across any literature that helps map Story_Point and FP. Also it does not look intutive since what consitutes 1 Story_Point for me may not be same as 1 Story_Point for another team. Hope that helps, Pranay | ||
| Vishnuvardhanan |
Pranay, Is Story point a different way of Sizing ? Is it more efficient than FP ? Vishnu | ||
| Luigi Buglione |
Vishnu, Story Points is one of the used convention in the Agile techniques (e.g. Scrum or XP), but it's just an effort-based measure, not a size measure. If you browse the internet, you can find a plenty of sources and threads in mailing lists (e.g. http://agilefaq.net/2007/11/13/what-is-a-story-point/) and furthermore the definition of such SP values is a local-based information, that each project team can decide for its own. But the main issue is: you need two basic data for estimating, that are the Size (referred to the entity you're measuring) and its Effort. But if you use yet an effort-based measure (called e.g. SP) for deriving how much time you need, you anyway miss the size... Last but not least, about comparisons we'd need to compare things/measureas that are comparable in nature, not 'apples with oranges' Do you agree? Best regards Luigi ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: www.geocities.com/lbu_measure/ MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: http://www.geocities.com/lbu_measure MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 | ||
| Vishnuvardhanan |
Luigi, Thanks for immediate response !. Till date I had counted more than 3500 FP. I have one more query that was taunting me for long since i started doing FP counting. Once i find the size of the requirement(FP/KLOC), how would I find the effort reqd to complete the task, number of resources reqd for the project? Pls let me know your thoughts on it. Thanks, Vishnu | ||
| Sajeev A |
Hi Vishuvardhanan, AFP will help to find the size of the Application/Project under your consideration. To know the Effort (no: of Resources and time) you need to know the productivity of the resources in your company in a particular technology. The productivity is measured as Hrs/FP. Let us assume your Quality team had found out the productivity of your resources in J2EE technology using the historic project information available in your company. Let us further assume the productivity of your resources in J2EE is 10 hrs per Function Point. If the AFP of the application under your consideration is 100 AFP, then the effort in Manmonths is given by (Total AFP *10)/(No: of working hrs * No of working days in a month) = 100 * 10 / (8 * 20)= 1000/160 = 6.25 manmonths. i.e if one person works in this project then he will completet the project in 6.5 months. So if u need to complete the project in lesser time , add the resources accordingly. Note: Time required to complete the development of Big Software projects cannot be reduced by adding more resources , since addition of more resources will require more time in making all the resources insync with the bsuiness functionality and hence more KT sessions. Sajeev | ||
| Vishnuvardhanan |
Sanjeev, Thanks for the explanation. I got a doubt here. Does 8 hrs * 20 days will give the result as 160 hrs. So to just clarify, does the unit be man-hrs or man-month? Thanks, Vishnu | ||
| Vishnuvardhanan |
Hi, Also, when i derive FP on the requirements phase, does this FP includes Design,Code and Unit testing as well?? How often I need to do FP counting and at what all phases? Is it possible to do FP for System testing? Thanks, Vishnu | ||
| Luigi Buglione |
Hi All, a couple of points about last posts: IFPUG FPA, as well as other FSM methods, is a technique for sizing the software product, not the software project managing the software product. And it's better to consider only UFP and not anymore AFP because VAF represent (by numbers) an underestimation of Non-Functional Requirements (NFR) both at the product and project levels. Again, about the usual way to calculate productivity using FP (FP/effort, the opposite is the so-called PDR - Productivity delivery rate), this white paper ( http://www.geocities.com/lbu_measure/fpa/fsm-prod-120e.pdf) states some problems and possible solutions for About which SLC phases are technically covered by FP in terms of effort, the input for FP are FUR (Functional User Requirements): therefore the solely effort to be considered should be the one related to the tasks derived from FUR, excluding all the other tasks in your WBS. Hoping it could be of some help! Best regards Luigi ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: www.geocities.com/lbu_measure/ MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: http://www.geocities.com/lbu_measure MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 | ||
| Vishnuvardhanan |
So Luigi, You mean to say for calculation purpose we need to take UFP rather than AFP into consideration. right? Vishnu | ||
| Luigi Buglione |
Yes, it's right. Also ISO accepted IFPUG FPA v4.1 but in its Unadjusted version (so excluding VAF) for this technical reason. The (product) technical dimension is outside of the scope of FPA and other FSM methods compliant with ISO 14143-x principles and you've to consider the non-functional side too, it's not a plus, but using different techniques. For instance, you could use a product quality model such as ISO 9126-1 stressing the characteristics you're more interested in and arrive to the measure level; or also IFPUG started last year a working group for determining the so-called 'technical size': first presentation was done at last ISMA conference (http://www.ifpug.org/webforum/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/10145/ISMA_2008_IFPUG_ ITPC_Non-Functional_Size_Measure-10153.pdf&type=application/pdf). Best regards, Luigi ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: www.geocities.com/lbu_measure/ MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 ____________________________________________ Luigi Buglione, Ph.D., CSMS Level 3 SEMQ: http://www.geocities.com/lbu_measure MIS 3/e: www.francoangeli.it/Ricerca/Scheda_Libro.asp?ID=8054 | ||
| Ricardo Chávez |
Hi, Thanks for your feedback on this. I agree with the comments provided above. Some authors call SP a functional size in Agile methodologies as opposed to effort size, by distinguising ideal days (which is an effort size), but that could be just a way to avoid recognizing it as effort size. I agree with Luigi, we can not compare SP to FP since SP does not have formal rules established by the Agile Alliance, but still be able to derive one from another if enough data be available for a set of projects. My original question is still in the air "In Capers Jones book "Applied Software Measurement", Edition 3, McGraw-Hill, 2008, page 155, it says "Some of the AGILE LITERATURE suggest that a story is typically decomposed into about three story points". Does anyone know which are those Agile literure sources?" THANKS =) Ricardo Chávez | ||
| Frank Vogelezang |
Although I value Capers very much, this is definitely an erroneous statement. Stories can be either very simple or highly complex. With storypoints the team that must realize this story can decide how they rate it compared to other stories. So a story can never have a fixed value, whether it's three or any other value. Story points is a team-based effort-related measurement. The same story could have a different value if sized by another team. In the company I currently work for Function Points are used to size the project as a whole and to make budget calculations. Story points are used to plan the 4-6 week iterations. Frank Vogelezang Metrics Consultant @ Sogeti Nederland website: http://metrieken.sogeti.nl/Home/SEC/Publicaties.jsp | ||
| ALOK KHARE |
Hi, I am looking for some more inputs on Story Point. Can soneone suggest any book or manual for this? | ||
| Mauricio Aguiar |
Alok, Consider Mike Cohn's books: 1) Agile Estimating and Planning http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Estimating-Planning-Mike-Cohn/dp/0131479415/ref=pd_sim_b_1 and 2) User Stories Applied: For Agile Software Development http://www.amazon.com/User-Stories-Applied-Software-Development/dp/0321205685/ref=sr_1_1 Hope this helps, Mauricio. (Message edited by mauricioaguiar on February 21, 2010) |
